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"Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism ... She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets." -- Martin Luther

Some Christian Cliches

And Some Typical Responses

An e-mail about this page.

The following are some of the standard cliches encountered by atheists who debate with Christians on discussion lists, forums, etc.

"I'll pray for you"

Does it make sense to believe that an all-knowing, all-powerful and all benevolent God has to be reminded that their followers need help? And does God pay more attention to the situation when we pray?

Christians believe that God has a divine plan for everyone so praying is pointless. This means that if God has everything planned out then things are going to happen the way God planned it, whether you pray or not.

All I can do is pray that you will see the light. I hope you find what you are searching for.

Your Christian curse is doomed to failure. Only the ignorant who believe in curses can be "harmed" by them. As for what I'm searching for, that's quite easilly come by. A trip to the local library usually is enough, in fact.

Might I suggest you download and review the Walk Away package that's available here? It certainly sounds as if you're desperately looking for a way to escape your misery. No one need know. Don't tell your masters!

It takes a lot more faith to ignore the evidence of God than it does to believe in him.

There is no evidence for God. Every "proof" presented by Christians has been speedily and easily debunked. Many Christian Apologists attempt to get around the lack proof for their god by invoking such things as "The Hiddeness of God" doctrine:

This reticent God does not like to force himself on people. He wishes to be sought for his own sake, not for the sake of the signs he can do, and therefore does not reveal Himself . He wants to be sought and found; he does not want to impose himself on those who are not interested, much less on those who reject Him. This shows us how truely wise and great God is.”

I only wish that my faith in God was as strong as your faith in Atheism.

A lot of people misunderstand atheism; it's simply a lack of belief in God/s. It does not require faith. Most people don't realise that atheism is the default position when we are born. No one is born a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Jane, a Hindu or as a member of any other religious persuasion.In most cases we learn our faith and beliefs 'at our mother's knee' before our critical facualties are developed. This is another reason why it's so hard to question our faith ~ it forms part of our core beliefs and worldview.

As for what else Atheism has to offer, it offers freedom of the mind - Freedom to think for yourself instead of letting a clergyman do it for you. Science thrives on the unknown whilst Christianity denies it.

Evolution violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics

No it doesn't.

Very briefly, the 2nd law of thermodynamics says that in a closed system, overall disorder can only increase with time. This does not mean that every part of the closed system must move toward disorder in lock step. Organisms increase in complexity and islands of order increase on earth because we have the benefit of the sun's energy that drives these processes. Indeed, natural selection is one of the more remarkable ordering systems in the universe, but it can only operate in this manner because it is fueled at the expense of the increasing disorder of the sun.

In other words, Earth, which is fed by the sun, is an open system within a larger closed system, the universe.

Once the earth's outside energy sources, such as the sun and star light, and its more limited internal chemical and radioactive resources, are fully depleted, life and evolution will no longer be possible. That time may only be a few billion years off, but for now, let's enjoy what we have.

There's a lot more information at Talk Origins and Cornell Astro

Remember, it is not a weakness admiting that science doesn't know all the answers as yet. A lack of scientific certainty, however does not mean that the vacuum has to be automatically filled by 'God did it" myths.

You're taking it out of context / That's the wrong interpretation / You're using the wrong bible / That's not what God meant

One thing I've often wondered about is why the Christian bible should need a lawyerly defence, because surely a work written either directly by God, dictated by Him or inspired by Him would be clearly distinct from the works of fallen, sinful mortals. Surely He would have done a much better job of it if He was even very indirectly involved.

Why did God need a scribe? He could have done it Himself and left not even a shadow of doubt they are His works. By using fallible, bungling humans God guaranteed the introduction of error.

If Christians want others to "see the light" they should be able to prove conclusively that the Bible is so unusual it could not have been written by humans, it only could have been written by the creator of the universe.

If the bible is truly the word of God it couldn't possible matter about contexor interpretation because each verse would be of such crystal clear clarity that no ambiguity would be possible ~ it would not be possible to mistake it for anything other than the "Word of God".

If the verses in the Book were truly of God's creation it would be used as a shining symbol of hope for the poor, the downtroddon and the disenfranchised and not as a blunt instument used as a bludgeon to promise eternal hellfire and damnation.

If the words contained in the bible were a true reflection of God they would act as a true binding force because there could be no room for doubt or interpretional differencies. The words would promote unity, not division. They would promote peace not war, friendship not violence.

The God invented by the Christians is usually presented as an all-powerful super-natural entity, existing both inside and outside of time and space but if He meant His words to be understood and followed by all people of all nations for all times, the message would stand apart and by totally comprehensible. It would not require rationalization to be piled upon rationalizion to explain it.

Anyone, learned or unlearned, would be able to see that bible gives information that only the creator of the universe could have known during the time the Bible was written and it would have been presented with such skill, clarity and an accuracy so extraordinary that only the creator of the universe could have been responsible.

If the omni- everything Christian God does exist then the bible is presenting Him in a disrespectful or even blasphemous manner because it shows Him as a cross between an inconsiderate parochial potentate playing favourites, and a petulant child, always ready to stomp on it's playthings, inconsistent, bungling, partial and forgetful, quite different qualities than Christians like to attribute to Him.

The bible is not a history book / The bible is not a science book.

That gets you out of explaining why bible history is not backed up by archaeological evidence. This gets you out of the difficult position of having to explain why many of the things in the bible didn't happen or happenned differently. This also excuses you from having to explain why a book supposedly written or inspired by God contains wrong information.

Doesn't it bother you that it's impossible to explain why a book supposedly inspired by God contains glaring errors such as regarding the moon as a light source, or classing a bat as a bird? Though you would expect the Creator of the sun and moon and all life to know the difference between an emitter and a reflector, or that a bat is not a bird.

The bible is the word of God and we know this to be true because it tells us so in the bible so therefore you should base your life around it

(Usually followed by a list of biblical verses "proving" that the bible is true)

That's a nice piece of circular reasoning ~ using the bible to prove that the bible is true even though outside sources have proved it wrong and shown that it can't be trusted on matters of history, science or biology or anything else we can actually see, touch, test or measure for ourselves. So why do you assume that it should be trusted on matters of morality or theology?

God Loves You And All His Children

That's nice. Why does He kill so many of us, then? Why does He do nothing to stop us killing each other?

What a living nightmare it must be for any compassionate, caring person to seriously believe in such a horribly cruel and vicious monster of a deity committing atrocities of torture that would turn the stomachs of all decent human beings. It must be very difficult for you to really think about what you believe and still acknowledge the value and worth of each and every individual person.

Who Are You To Question God?

I'm not questioning God, I'm questioning you. You seem to forget that we are all experts your God because we all have the same amount of information about Him: none. The only evidence that Christians can give that their God exists is from their bible, every other proof of God's existance is easily disproved.

If the bible cannot be trusted to supply us with the truth about simple, discernible facts why should we take it on trust that there is truth contained in any of its premises about God. We can't even trust the bible to tell us whether we will be saved by faith alone or our works.

Why should I accept what you or others say about the Bible being the word of God. Why should I accept your explanations and interpretations as being the true meanings simply because they are based on your inherent faith?

In fact, why should I accept that Christianity is a revealed religion and not the self-serving and pretentious imaginings of vainglorious men?

God will only accept you if you give your heart to Him freely.

Have any evidence for these deity constructs of yours? Any at all? As for handing over badly-needed organs, I observe the results of your own donation of the brain and don't quite wish to emulate you.

Jesus Was Special And Unique

No, he wasn't. He was just another in a long line of messiahs and "Son's of God" There was nothing special or unique about him. In fact, there are grave doubts if he even existed at all.

Variations On A Theme Called Hell

You have been deceived by Satan and will burn for eternity in hell!
Hope you enjoy your special place in HELL.

I hope that one day you will learn to direct your positive concerns toward reality, with the courage to question religious dogmas, and the freedom to think critically and creatively without fear.

On Judgement Day you will have to answer to Jesus Christ Himself, and then it wont be so funny when he throws your soul into HELL!!!!!!
You had better get right with Jesus now before it's too late.

Jesus most likely had a very primitive version of what we call schizophrenia. Think about it, if you're mother slept with someone, got pregnant and then lied and said it was god's child, and you were told all of your life that you were god's only son, wouldn't that make you a little crackers?

Hope you have an asbestos suit, cos you're going to HELL.

I feel sorry for what you must be going through right now and every day of your life, believing in such a monstrous god that would torture even one person let alone the billions that you know will never believe in your religious dogmas.

Jesus came to save everyone from their sin and the punishment of their sin which is eternity in Hell.

Nice. What kind of monster punishes its children by torturing them? Do you follow the same vicious and hateful rule with any children under YOUR care? Especially not if you call such hideous child abuse by the name of "love."

The day will come when you realize the lord is your only salvation.

Who would even want to live in the same neighbourhood with such a creature let alone spend eternity singing praises to such a monster? It amazing that you claim to love the god of the bible, a hateful, arrogant, sexist, cruel being who can't tolerate criticism.

Too bad that you're going to Hell.
One day, when you're burning in Hell, you'll remember this conversation, and that I warned you!

How nice and such lovely examples of Christian love. Do you ever wonder why an all-loving God would build such a place as hell? Or why He would impose infinite punishment for the finite "crime" of not believing in Him.

Have you ever read the Old Testament? There is no mention of hell there. The fact is that hell and the devil were invented by Christians and are part of the "carrot and stick" technique used by Christians to recruit more sheep and help control those that are already part of the "flock".

Variations On The 'Atheists Are Stupid' Theme

The fool sayeth in his heart that there is no God!

The wise man shouts it from the rooftops!

You have chosen to be blind to the TRUTH!!!
You have closed your heart off to the TRUTH!!!

No, we have choosen to apply logic and reason and not base our lives around a centuries old book full of myths and fairy tales.

Interpreting the bible eschatologically Isaiah is not fulfilled literally, but eschatologically

Eschatology is a great tool for apologists, allowing them justify the plainly ridiculous and defend the indefencible. Instead of saying

"no, he got it wrong. The world didn't end within a generation", or "it was really someone with his eye on the main chance, trying to curry favour with his boss and Matthew used the idea to give added credence to the Jesus myth"

it allows them to say

"eschatologically speaking and viewing the words through the doctrine concerning the ultimate or final things, such as death, the destiny of humanity, the Second Coming, or the Last Judgment, they were actually proven correct".

It might work when an apologist is preaching to the choir but trying it on someone who lacks the White Queens' ability to believe six impossible things before breakfast just shows it for what it is ~ an attempt to shore up the crumbling infrastructure of Christianity.

You may actually be doing your faith a dis-service because there's a good posibility that some of the boards lurkers may be waivering about abandoning their faith and the non-explaination offered by eschatology only show how weak the Christians case is.

Atheists suffer from a mental illness that makes them unable to detect the truth about God and the Bible.

Where is your sense of self-respect when you tell people about: women came from a man's rib; a snake, a donkey and a burning bush spoke human language; moses had a magic wand and the Nile River turned into blood; a stick turns into a snake; that witches, wizards and sorcerers really exist; that food rained from the sky for forty years; that people were cured by the site of a brass serpent; that the sun stood still to help Joshua win a battle; that a detached hand floated in air and wrote on a wall; that mental illness is caused by demons; that a devil with wings, horns and tail exists and causes evil; that people were healed by Peter's shadow; that angels broke people out of jail?

People who abandon reason and rationality have no right to expect polite acceptance of their irrationality, nor to have it politely ignored. Intellectual dishonesty like this is not admirable, not acceptable.

Variations On The "Atheism Is A Religion" Theme

You have to believe in SOMETHING!

Everyone worships SOMETHING!

You may think your happy, but you can only know TRUE HAPPINESS through Jesus Christ.

Science beats religious faith in many minds for the simple fact: When negative evidence is found, the belief is altered. When a religious notion is proven false, people blame Lucifer, or say its a test. Scientists are slightly more capable of admitting themselves wrong. For instance, the science community realized that they had the wrong skull on a body, and 'brontosaurus' was replaced with 'apatasaurus'.

Scientists, good ones at least, are aware that they will make mistakes. It's actually the whole point of science.

Theism, however, cannot be tested, and its often considered heresy to attempt it.

Christianity has no more valid basis than any other belief system. No religion is more provable than the other, despite what many claim.

Variations On The "You're Stupid, Ignorant, or Deceiving Yourself" Theme

You have already made up your mind, and it's a waste of time to try to convince you.
God still loves you even if you are an atheist!

Of course the gods love atheists. The proof is that they gave atheists the finest human minds on Earth. All of the substandard ones went to Fundamentalist Muslims, Hindus, Christians, and assorted theists.

I found Jesus. Why can't you?

The same I can't find Santa Claus, who is likewise believed to exist outside imagination despite there being no evidence to support such a contention. From the standpoint of evidence, the Jesus myth and the Santa myth are logically equivalent.

You're obviously running away from God!
You're obviously hiding from the truth!
Though you say you don't believe, deep down inside, you know there is a God!
God's obvious to me, so what's your problem?

Why do you need to play with make believe gods? The sooner you come to realize that all gods are manmade the sooner you will be to put away your childish toy gods and superstitious dogmas.

If there is no God, how do you explain the world we live in?
What happened in your life that made you hate God?
Of course the Bible sounds like foolishness! Without faith in God, you cannot understand his wisdom!
Even though you don't believe it, Jesus and God are REAL!

Nonsense. You are merely repeating superstitious fairy tales and religious make believe. I would strongly encourage you to grow up and accept responsibility for thinking more clearly.

Good stories get re-told and embelished over the years. God continues to have a hold on you because it is a good story and the idea of gods has been around for countless thousands of years.

God and religion are memes, ideas that have what it takes to get replicated. A meme survives because it is complex, a series of ideas that get bundled together and get passed down the generations.

From Christianity Meme Org

• Christianity is a meme--a mind virus that lives in the minds of people and is spread through proselytization and other means.
• Christianity is a meme about God, but it has no other connection to God.
• The Christianity Meme has been shaped purely by natural selection--the law of survival of the fittest--as it has played out in human minds. It is a sophisticated product of cultural evolution.
• Being a "true Christian" infected by the Christianity Meme will subject you to aid its survival through its adaptations that allow it exert control over human behavior.
• As a consequence, the more Christian you are the more you are prone to certain kinds of immoral behavior. The Christianity Meme is not bound by the moral principles it carries.
• We seek to expose Christianity for what it is and we advocate a conscious and rational approach to morality in its place.

The idea of God is so prevalent in just about every society and we don't learn it in the way we learn other subjects, we absorb it as we absorb our mother tongue. It's learnt before we possibly make a critical assessment of what we are learning.

Before we can critically assess for ourselves if God exists or not we are taught where he lives, that He punishes bad people and rewards good people and that He regards us as worthless unless we believe in, and worship Him.

We get the dogma with the deity in a neat little package and we have to carry the baggage that accompanies the central idea before we are capable of analysing the central concept.

We are told that the Bible is always right and have absorbed many Bible stories before we even start attending school. The religion we so uncritically absorb also provides us with an inoculation against atheism and other religions.

Variations On The "Life Has No Meaning Unless..." Theme

A universe without God is a universe without Hope!
Without a God, life is meaningless.
Christianity is not just the best answer. It is the only answer.
You have devoted your life to something NEGATIVE (atheism), rather than something POSITIVE (christianity, of course).

Why can't you accept the fact that God/s are a man-made creation and were invented to explain what they could not explain any other way.

Now the need for gods has gone. Although we cannot as yet explain everything, science has come up with enough answers that sketch out much of the important features in our Universe. No longer is it sufficient to say "God did it".

Why do you need the belief in a God or an afterlife to have a point to your life? Why not accept responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming the bad on satan and crediting God with anything good that happens? Why not accept your faults and virtues and live without fairy tales and superstitions?

There is a lot to look forward to in life and many things that give it meaning and make it worth something.

• Watching our children grow and learn, teaching them to be decent adults who are ultimatly responsible for their own actions.
• Spending time with loved ones, family and friends.
• Enjoying the beauty of nature and the Earth's bounty.
• Advancing our knowledge of life, the universe and everything else.
• Love and laughter.
• Leaving behind a legacy of hope and understanding for our children.
• Having the comfort of knowing that we have not wasted our lives on superstition and religious mumbo-jumbo.

The Bible is the Word of God and contains no contradictions.

Oh, really? Here's a very small sample of contradictions to be found in "the Word of God". Let me know when you've explained these and I'll let you have a few hundred more.

More Christian Cliches

From The Exit Fundyism Discussion Group

A collection of 'Christian Cliches' frequently used by born again Christians when attemtpting to witness and reveal God's truth to the unsaved.

Also includes cliches and comments used when the Christian realizes he didn't succeed in converting.

1. "THE WISDOM OF THE WORLD"

OFFICIAL DEFINITION: Ideas contrary to God's revealed truth, conceived by Satan the deceiver and accepted by those who reject God

REAL DEFINITION: Any idea that is contrary to the teachings of one's own church. Especially suspect if arrived at through rational means. (Kevin Hedges)

2. "YOU WERE NEVER REALLY SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE" (Responding to ex-Christians)

I can't allow myself to believe that you were ever a born again Christian. If you left Christianity, it follows that I am capable of leaving too. It would destroy the very foundation of my beliefs.

3. "SATAN HAS DECEIVED YOU"

A. If you still don't believe after my crystal clear explanation of salvation then I'll have to blame a third party for your lack of perception.

B. Thank God the Israelites propogated belief in Satan. What a great catch-all statement for things I can not otherwise rebut or defend.

4. "SALVATION IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY SORE SUBJECT FOR YOU - YOU ARE SO FULL OF HATE AND CONTEMPT"

Your arguments against born again fundamentalism make sense. I'll have to change the focus of our discussion.

5. "SOMEONE IN THE CHURCH MUST HAVE CAUSED YOU A GREAT DEAL OF HURT FOR YOU TO FEEL THIS WAY"

You couldn't have possibly left Christianity just because you studied the Bible and you think you found inconsistencies and errors in it.

6. "I KNOW THE BIBLE SAYS GOD KILLED MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN AND UNBORN FETUSES. HE IS THE CREATOR OF ALL. HE CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS"

(a) I really get stuck when ex-fundies tell me about Biblegod's atrocities. I'll just give Him complete, unlimited power to do anything He wants to do. Its sort of like building sand castles on the beach. You get to destroy them because you created them.

(b) How else can I justify God killing kids and fetuses?

7. "GOD GAVE ME A SPECIAL BURDEN FOR [insert inferior group/non-Christian person or group here]"

If these poor, stupid, uninspired, ungodly, bible rejecting, misled idiots could only discover the real truth as I have. (Jonathan E)

8. "YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE THINGS OF THE LORD IF HIS SPIRIT DOESN'T DWELL WITHIN YOU"

(a) I'm special. I'm saved. I understand spiritual things now because I have become spiritual. You don't understand. You're not saved! You're not spiritual like me.

You can understand spiritual things too once you ask Christ to come into you heart (...and spend a couple of years allowing me and the other brethren to condition your mind daily to think the same way we do).

9. "BE NOT UNEQUALLY YOKED"

It is not good to be exposed to people whose opinions or knowledge opposes my beliefs. It may cause me to start thinking rather than rely wholly on the Bible and/or my pastor.

10. 'GOD SAID IT. I BELIEVE IT. THAT SETTLES IT!

My pastor says its God's word and I'm attributing my mindset to the mind of God. I can't dispute it. After all, I'm basing my entire life's philosophy on my perception of what God is saying. My unbending committment and refusal to discuss it with infidels also gains approval from my Christian friends.

11. PRAISE THE LORD!

Used when something good happens by attributing it to the Lord, like getting a new car or getting out of the hospital. It is never used, though, if someone dies or a plane crashes and all the passengers are killed. This is only used when the Lord does good stuff.

12. GOD HAS A SPECIAL PLAN FOR THEM.

Used to rationalize why a minivan full of pre-schoolers was smashed to smithereens by a drunk driver who walked away with only scratches. This is an alternative to "Praise the Lord" when tragedies occur. (Thanks Fran H)

13. SCRIPTURE CAN ONLY BE UNDERSTOOD BY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

Used by the Christian who is at a loss to explain a particular scripture quoted by an unbeliever.

The irony of this statement is apparently lost on them, since in order to be born again, one must first have some understanding of Jesus as depicted in the scriptures. (Thanks Robert B.)

14. WE WORSHIP A GREAT BIG GOD WHO CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS. SO WATCH OUR OR HE MIGHT JUST GET TIRED OF YOU, TOO! FEAR HIM, BECAUSE HE CAN DESTROY BOTH THE BODY AND THE SOUL IN HELL!

OK! Enough of the "Love Of Jesus" stuff. Your constant rejection of my testimony and beliefs is beginning to piss me off. I hope you take my threat seriously because I'm at a loss to know what else to say. If I were God, I would kill you right now.

15. I WILL PRAY FOR YOU.

I can't imagine that you have ever prayed you unregenerate twit. And even if you do pray, you are not a born again Christian so you probably don't pray very well. I am saved and I can pray much better than you. God will probably answer my prayers before he answers yours.